A new “friend” informed me that she was not a feminist, and told me why. Here’s how the conversation went:

Her: “Women have a role. They are meant to have children.”
Me: “I don’t.”
Her: “Women are meant to take care of their husbands.”
Me: “I don’t.”
Her: “Then you aren’t a woman.”

So according to her, because I am childfree and single, I am not a woman. What am I then?

I think I can find better friends.


The thing, USA


28 Responses to “BFF…”

  1. Luna_the_cat Says:

    You can definitely find better friends. How sad that this person does not regard even herself as being a real human being in her own right, with the right to have ambitions beyond taking care of other people and having babies. That is a really sad indictment of how she was raised.

  2. Mat Says:

    Find better friends ASAP.

  3. Charlotte Says:

    Oh SHIT, son, kick her to the curb asap! Not before giving her a firm argument re: why you are indeed, still a woman (haha, what are you then, a man? alien?) and why feminism is relevant and not just about those god-awful stereotypes.

  4. IS Says:

    A similar incident happened to me a few months ago on an internet forum (of course). We were talking about the modern role of fertility in neo-Paganism and whether or not the meaning of fertility has changed to fit the times, and I of course argued that it has, seeing as I really don’t want children and I don’t think that fertility only applies to biological functions. This woman RIPS INTO ME, saying “What are you here for if not to procreate the human race?”, that I’m no better than a dog because I have sex without the purpose of procreation, that I’m going to die alone and miserable, and that I’m not a “real woman” unless I know the love of a child. I couldn’t believe those words were coming out of the mouth of another woman.

    • BranchMonster Says:

      IS, I was talking with my BFF last night about this site and we agreed that there is something extra crushing about women treating other women badly because of sexist views. It’s a shame that one half of the human race thinks the other half doesn’t matter and it’s akin to evil when the half who identify as women (XX or not) expresses hatred within itself. Let’s be glad some minds have already been changing thanks to this site.

      • IS Says:

        “there is something extra crushing about women treating other women badly because of sexist views.” <- I agree so much it hurts. Like you said, it's bad enough when men treat us horribly, but to have another woman agree with that treatment and/or submit other women to that kind of treatment is beyond horrific.

    • Darth Paul Says:

      That’s pretty much why I avoid public pagan fora. I have my own circle, we’re content in our ‘thing’ and there’s no self-loathing bs like that.

      • IS Says:

        *nods head furiously* lol Nowadays I just stick around for the rare serious discussion and for the lulz that come from reading the arguments. Otherwise I’m off with my actual group doing our own thing. XD

  5. Lucía Says:

    are so sad situations like that. I think women have a big work in front of us, but we can solve it, I hope that. (sorry for the expresions but I’m spanish and I don’t talk english too well :S)

  6. SkyHawk Says:

    It seems this 1950s attitude about women goes both ways :/

  7. The Heff Says:

    But isn’t a woman critizising a woman about her opinions on sexuality, sexist in itself. But if those opinions are sexist then does it cancel the sexism out or lead to a infinite sexist regression loop.

    Aaaaah. My head!!!!!!

    • A Different Sam Says:

      No, disagreeing with someone who happens to be a woman is not sexist, and you are a lousy troll.

    • Enoon Says:

      That’s why OP made a point to say “I don’t” instead of “they don’t.”

    • Luna_the_cat Says:

      Women are perfectly capable of internalising and perpetuating sexist world views, including extremely damaging sexist worldviews. We are not prohibited from calling women on sexism just because they are women; they can still be sexist, and the worldview is still sexist, and calling someone sexist when they are perpetuating sexist views and stereotypes, whether they are male or female, is not itself inherently sexist, but is simply tackling the problem.

      Your head really ought to be capable of dealing with this without exploding. It isn’t rocket science.

  8. Axiomatic Says:

    I think you may be a cat of some sort.

  9. Pavlov's Cat Says:

    *is not actually a cat of any sort, contrary to Axiomatic’s suggestion*

    New friends definitely in order. I get this too, and have for as long as I can remember been told I wasn’t a real girl/woman for a long list of reasons. Clearly somebody died and made a large number of really stupid and judgemental people the gender police.

  10. RV Says:

    you should direct her to the words of Sojourner Truth: “Ain’t I a Woman”

    It’s sad to think that almost 160 YEARS later, people like your “friend” have learned nothing from it.

  11. yolanda Says:

    What are you? A free person with self direction. In a perfect world gender would be relevant only when seeking a mate, and this would happen only in those social arenas considered appropriate for mating games.

  12. Sara Says:

    That’s retarded. In my HUMBLE and not in the least bit opinionated opinion a woman can still have children and look after her husband and be a feminist.

    so what, she just brings her children into life and then job done?

    what if she has daughters? does she not want them to have equal opportunities in the rest of their life? Even if she choses to dedicate her life to caring for her husband, what if her daughters don’t? would she not invest time campaining for a better world for them to live in? or is it just a case of popping them out and job done?

    and what about any sons? let’s hope her sons don’t find themselves fighting for custody of her grankids and consequently, she’s forced to stop and think: “hmm, if i hadn’t spent so much time pigeon holeing women into ‘mother’ and ‘wife’, there would be a level playing field. Food for thought

    • CM Says:

      Just a gentle reminder that “retarded” is disableist language, and not acceptable to describe something as wrong.

      • Sara Says:

        Sorry, that’s my colloquialism for you, for me retarded refers to senarios, it means stupid or outrageous, it doesn’t have anything to do with people, whether disabled or otherwise but yeah I completely understand the origins of the word and it is noted. I profusely apologise to anyone whom might have been offended or upset.

      • H Says:

        Thanks for making this a gentle reminder, unlike the incredibly long and complicated discussion about ‘person of colour’ in another thread. It’s important for all of us who want equality to point out to each other when one of us uses an offensive term without thinking, because sometimes modes of speech are so naturalised for us that we don’t notice their oppressive connotations (and I bet most of us are guilty of this.)

        Since I read Dale Spender’s Man-Made Language I’ve become really aware of the words I use, I’d recommend it to anyone interested in the politics of speech.

  13. Wahine Says:

    Your fault you are NOT female, surely ? 🙂 + friendly hug. I emphatise – don’t let it get you down.

  14. Em Says:

    So, all of us who aren’t able to reproduce aren’t real women? Oh purleeeeze.

    She is an offensive person with sexist and outdated views, I think you can find better and more sensible friends!

  15. JB Says:

    I’ve had quiet a few conversations about this with other women. I don’t think the dismay will ever wear off when I hear a fellow female telling me how I’m stupid or ‘will change my mind when I’m older.’
    I will never understand the thought process behind ‘make babies, because that’s what we women are supposed to to.’
    Aren’t there enough unwanted and unloved children out there in this world?

  16. selidororous Says:

    Drop the “friend” ASAP and find better friends elsewhere.

  17. Kris S. Says:

    I knew I would never have children when I was a young teen. Despite what so many people around me told me about “you’ll change your mind”, I never did. I’m 42 now. Still not changing!

    Don’t let the turkeys get you down! Get more open-minded friends. I mean, seriously. Your friend’s values are from the dark ages.

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